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CUTTING SCORES
#1
All about cutting scores. What are considered "high" cutting scores? Would you say 1650-1700 is high? In order to pick up E-4, do you HAVE to meet or exceed the projected cutting score? I did the math over and over using the MOL calculator, and even when I maxed out the rifle range scores, PFT/CFT, etc (just in MOL, I don't max them out IRL). I hardly break 1600. 

Stats are as follows:

286 PFT
289 CFT
296 rifle range score
4.3/4.3 Pros/Cons
<2 years TIS
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#2
Look at the way the score is calculated. Pros/cons and TIS factor heavily. Unless you get meritorious, you must meet the score. High is more like 1700-1800; just be glad you MOS isn't closed out. Or you're not a grunt.
The Kool-Aid is a lie.
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#3
So I'd need to get a 4.5/4.5 or higher?
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#4
Be shit hot, or do like the rest of us, and wait. Serious note, units tend to promote based on seniority. The guy with 3-4 years in will get his pros/cons bumped (along with more TIS) and get the promotion, while others wait. That was my experience at least, my pros/cons never changed no matter what I did. We were just told our time would come.
The Kool-Aid is a lie.
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#5
Very well, I kinda figured that was the case. When I got to my unit, I saw some E3's who'd been at the unit 3 or 4 years JUST pick up around their 3rd of 4th years; and they mostly appeared to be squared away.
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#6
Shoulda gone comm bro our cutting score is 1574 this month and was 1527 last month I think. That's radio and data is even lower
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#7
Just be an optimal Marine and your score will reflect. It took me 4 years to hit Cpl and 5 1/2 TIS for Sgt. This was with Motor T reserve scores as well. I've had high 1st class everything and Pro/Cons were 4.6 avg.

Find a way to bring those P/C's up. If your squad leader/platoon sausage are keeping your scores down for no reason (like you're not a shitbag), than they're just douche bags. I started out at my unit with 4.3 avg as well.

You need a 4.5 avg to be looked at for meritorious anyway so strive above that.
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#8
I have a question about promotions.

So a girl I was in the school house with, got promoted to Corporal this month after 6 months in the fleet, by apparently meeting the cutting score with a 1616. I was talking with my Sergeant, and he said he's never seen that done, because she wouldn't really have had the TIS points. I know her pros/cons out of the school house were a 4.5/4.5, and I know she doesn't have a high pft, because at the school house she barely scraped out a 28 minute 3-Mile. Still nobody can seem to explain how you would meet the cutting score that soon.

And yes, I'm a little jealous, I'm a super competitive person. I was still like a hundred fricken points away from the cutting score, and that's the same for everyone else I know.
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#9
Maybe recruiting points? That's an easy 100 pts.
Plus 7 MCIs is another 100 pts
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#10
Fucking bullshit.
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#11
(06-10-2015, 06:04 PM)29PalmsGrunt Wrote: Fucking bullshit.

I agree.
The only thing to her credit is that she got separated from Boot Camp like 4 years ago, and came back in. Though on a facebook rant she said those 4 years was her 'doing her time and earning her rank'. Does that even count in any sort of way?
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#12
Could *possibly* be TIS. Now hear me out. If she was separated from boot four years earlier, its possible she was only dropped to the IRR so she had some kind of time racking up in the mean time. Like others said, likely MCIs and book reports and other shit. Or just good old fashioned pussy pass
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#13
Wham, bam, thank you ma'am
The Kool-Aid is a lie.
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#14
The fact that the system is so broken that a proficient infantry lcpl with 2 combat deployments under his belt can come back and be expected to respect and obey an NCO with 6 months in the fleet is ludicrous.

The jump in your leadership abilities between the two ranks is blown way out of proportion within the Marine Corps as a whole.

First day back in 29 from second Iraq deployment walking to the PX to buy beer and pass some boot POG Cpl. in charlies.

Cpl: Well Lcpl......I know I rate a greeting! Good afternoon or something?

Me without slowing down or even stopping to look at the guy: Go fuck yourself.
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#15
Do your PME you fucking idiot, it's 100 free points.
ABACABB Reservist 02s are some of the biggest motards Except for SS 17 Aug 04:17
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#16
It is indeed bullshit but like any organization you gotta play the game to reach the goal. Is anything stopping you from getting MCIs/PME done besides interfering with your free time? If not, just get it done. Play the game. Get promoted. Kind of like the civilian world. Do people really need degrees to do the job they're doing? Not really, unless you're a doctor, engineer, or scientist. But it's a game that people have to play to compete.

The reason why deployments don't really factor in when it comes to lower enlisted promotions is that lower enlisted generally don't have a say when it comes to unit assignments and deployments. They do factor in though when the staff board hits because obviously the MC would prefer to have SSgts who have done their job in a real time operational environment. We're probably going to see that less now with the limited wars.

Promotion rates differ by MOS for a number of reasons. On one hand an 0311 LCpl is used to working under high pressure and high stress by virtue of work ethic should ideally be promoted ahead of a [MOS here] that spent all deployment in relative comfort. On the other hand, check out MOL and see how many 0311 LCpls there are - lots of pages worth if you check out Rank/MOS. A Marine that brings a unique skill to the table will probably see faster promotion as an incentive for staying in. Not to mention it's harder for support people to do their jobs if the people they're supposed to be supporting consistently outrank them. That would result in a bunch of angry mofos being able to tell other Marines how to do their jobs when they don't understand what goes into it all. This is exacerbated by the POG/grunt dichotomy where certain Marines would try to boss other Marines around simply out of spite.

We see it happen in society all the time. The younger guy who has gone to school or has a background in an in-demand trade will generally enjoy a higher socioeconomic standard than somebody who has 20 years of experience in manual labor. The Marine Corps (and American culture in general) teach that simply working hard will yield good results; this is true, but there is a ceiling if what you do doesn't really set you apart from others.

As an example, my cousin had an opportunity to intern for the summer doing computer science stuff because he got a computer science degree. It would have been great for getting his foot in the door career-wise. My idiot uncle forced him to not take the internship because it was "easy work" and instead has him delivering pizzas to learn "good work habits" (the uncle has say because my cousin saved money by not getting his own place). Hey, Puritan American work ethic, we get it, great. He's still going to be behind everybody else who took an internship when his stint delivering pizzas is up though.

Yeah you might see an NCO that spent a few months in the fleet and is already a NCO, but chances are he spent a year in school learning how to speak Pashtu or fixing radars or learning some other complex job that is a challenge in of itself. He didn't magically enlist and get promoted to NCO just because.

I dunno. Just my 2 pence.
We're ahead of our time. Floating through...
The sky is falling down. This night belongs to you.
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#17
^ The issue isn't as much that cutting scores for MOS varies but that somehow being a higher rank gives you the ability to lord over all who are lower rank despite the MOS differences.

That shit would never fly in real life.

"Hey civilian, why aren't you wearing a belt with those pants? I'm a director at PETA so you must listen to me. I know you're just an associate at a totally different company but become my title is higher at my company then I will try to correct what I think is wrong with you."
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#18
That's what the command structure is for. MSgt at Bulk Fuel Bn can't just walk all willy nilly in the G-3 at Division and grab a LCpl for a working party. Odds are the MGySgt at G-3 is going to tell the MSgt to pound sand and to grab somebody else (if the said MGySgt isn't a motivator that understands the reason for the command structure).

Obviously civilian directors aren't going to be telling civilian laborers to wear a belt because they are not beholden to the military's rigid command structure. However, you can bet that the civilian director is going to be more influential within an organization where the civilian laborer works, which might affect the dress code regardless of "how hard" either party works. Marines all work in the same organization but have different responsibilities. Those responsibilities blur often because of the expectation that all Marines are expected to flourish wherever they are put regardless of specialty.

My point is, there's a reason for faster/slower promotion rates. The guy who spent a year in MOS school learning to do a job that most aren't qualified to do is probably going to have authority over the guy who spent 5 extra weeks running around with heavy gear saying 'er at a school that churns out new graduates like clockwork (that's obviously an oversimplification of an entire MOS field but you catch my drift).

Mind you, this isn't a purely a POG/grunt thing. Recon Marines are promoted relatively fast. Then again recon is a small outfit with an extensive training pipeline that most wash out of. Motor T Marines can fix and drive trucks which takes some learning, but Motor T Marines aren't exactly uncommon and can be replaced with relative ease. Same with supply Marines. The recruiter I replaced was supply and got the boot for not getting SSgt despite having a successful tour or recruiting on his record.

tl;dr - Rank has more to do with task authority within a unit and less to do with individual "leadership abilities" which are purely subjective and can't be quantified in any way. What does it mean, exactly? More yelling at subordinates? More PT? More mentoring? More micromanagement? Leadership at the S-4 is completely different from leadership in an engineer section for a good reason.
We're ahead of our time. Floating through...
The sky is falling down. This night belongs to you.
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#19
abacabb - decent synopsis and relevant. Reflected my experience in Corps back when dinosaurs roamed the valleys. But promos were probably much easier during 70s and 80s.

As for the kid's parent that interfered with an internship, offer his old man's ignorant and worthless life as a sacrifice to Thor or Zeus on an alter of napalm-fueled fire. The boy is fucked. Today's CS education without experience is worthless unless you have a portfolio of representative projects on GitHub or have name on FOSS contributors' list.

Promotions also suck in the corporate world. For civs, most have to find another job to get promoted.  My godson was recently promoted to E6 @10 years TIS. He did all of the 'right stuff' in the correct order, and seems to have managed getting the rocker without screwing over others. Karma.
there is no safety in numbers. numbers do not lie.
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#20
Damn skippy. I find it amusing how on Glassdoor I'll constantly find reviews of companies from people who say "company sucks, no upward growth, etc." Well no shit: 1.) You're a contractor. Contract work is casual labor no matter many years of experience you have. 2.) The only "promotion" you really see is managerial positions and many of those require advanced degrees because there are so many people with four year degrees out there now. Every single civ manager I worked for had assloads of experience along with an advanced degree. The very few who have a degree and no experience went to a prestigious school and got a high GPA.

I tried to be as real with kids as I could when recruiting. Particularly when we ran short of infantry contracts due to their popularity and the kid had to choose something else but wouldn't budge. Johnny, I know you want to be a badass war winner with bragging rights but unless you stay in the military, career prospects are dismal. If you do stay in, you'll have to be uncommonly awesome just to get promoted and stay longer. It's 4 or 5 years of your life, what path will you choose?
We're ahead of our time. Floating through...
The sky is falling down. This night belongs to you.
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#21
just go to security forces
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#22
Couldn't find a thread on this. What does ACE, SEP, and RRC standfor on Marine net courses when you search for them? Also is there a REAL list of courses that count towards college credit. Obviously as Marines we try to take the easy way for most things and Im trying to have somewhat of a "leg up" whenever I decide to go to college. Maybe in a year or two maybe in 20 who knows.
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#23
(10-06-2015, 02:34 AM)Vinnie9211!! Wrote: Couldn't find a thread on this. What does ACE, SEP, and RRC standfor on Marine net courses when you search for them? Also is there a REAL list of courses that count towards college credit. Obviously as Marines we try to take the easy way for most things and Im trying to have somewhat of a "leg up" whenever I decide to go to college. Maybe in a year or two maybe in 20 who knows.

I'm not sure about the other ones, but if it says "SEP" with a 15 under it, those are going to count towards your cutting score (probably means something like Standard Education Points)
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#24
(06-16-2015, 02:29 PM)ABACABB Wrote: That's what the command structure is for. MSgt at Bulk Fuel Bn can't just walk all willy nilly in the G-3 at Division and grab a LCpl for a working party. Odds are the MGySgt at G-3 is going to tell the MSgt to pound sand and to grab somebody else (if the said MGySgt isn't a motivator that understands the reason for the command structure).

Obviously civilian directors aren't going to be telling civilian laborers to wear a belt because they are not beholden to the military's rigid command structure. However, you can bet that the civilian director is going to be more influential within an organization where the civilian laborer works, which might affect the dress code regardless of "how hard" either party works. Marines all work in the same organization but have different responsibilities. Those responsibilities blur often because of the expectation that all Marines are expected to flourish wherever they are put regardless of specialty.

My point is, there's a reason for faster/slower promotion rates. The guy who spent a year in MOS school learning to do a job that most aren't qualified to do is probably going to have authority over the guy who spent 5 extra weeks running around with heavy gear saying 'er at a school that churns out new graduates like clockwork (that's obviously an oversimplification of an entire MOS field but you catch my drift).

Mind you, this isn't a purely a POG/grunt thing. Recon Marines are promoted relatively fast. Then again recon is a small outfit with an extensive training pipeline that most wash out of. Motor T Marines can fix and drive trucks which takes some learning, but Motor T Marines aren't exactly uncommon and can be replaced with relative ease. Same with supply Marines. The recruiter I replaced was supply and got the boot for not getting SSgt despite having a successful tour or recruiting on his record.

tl;dr - Rank has more to do with task authority within a unit and less to do with individual "leadership abilities" which are purely subjective and can't be quantified in any way. What does it mean, exactly? More yelling at subordinates? More PT? More mentoring? More micromanagement? Leadership at the S-4 is completely different from leadership in an engineer section for a good reason.

If I remember correctly the Army utilized a SPEC program for skill and standard ranks (Corporal, Sergeant) for leadership jobs for this precise reason. Kind of like a warrant officer enlisted program?

You could be a whiz at your job and deserved to be compensated for it but could be a total leadership rock. As it was explained to me, you had these dudes with 12 years in, walking around as a SPEC 6 (getting paid as an E-6) but held no leadership billets while hard chargers that were Corporals and Sergeants that would be promoted to leadership billets and performed specific jobs within their skill set.

Anyone prior Army and remember this or am I just nuts? 
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#25
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